Horrible sound in my motor

[Speach]

So I had done some work on the motor on my 68 getting rid of some exhaust leaks, changing the timing set, cleaning the heads and putting new valve seals. I had some issues setting the timing which I never got quite perfect. After adjusting the timing and running it multiple times and driving it short distances twice, everything was sounding really nice. I decided to get rid of the smog set up by gutting the pump and using it as a pulley. It ran great after that. The same day I started it a couple of times and then clunk ! and bad noises. i am scared to know what happened, especially after so much work. I will be taking the timing cover back off to see hopefully before it gets too cold, and possibly a head or both heads. My one regret after doing the work was that I did not use any loc tite on the timing gears. I am afraid that the cam sprocket came off and things went out of time. I did torque everything to spec from a 68 manual. Any thoughts on what might have happened? Thanks a bunch, I am learning every day, by successes and by failures. It looks like this one will be by failure. 

[Cadillac Kid-CLC #15364]

Assuming you used the correct cqam sprocket bolts , tightened correctly and IF the problem is in the timing set, you may have either instaloled the oil slinger backwards, allowing the grank pulley to walk, or you may have forgotten it entirely.  Any how you will see what went when you pull it apart.  We've all been there.
Greg

[The Tassie Devil (Bruce Reynolds)]

Oh boy, very hard to diagnose over the internet.

BUT, does it still run?   Or did it stop when it went "Clunk" followed by the "bad noises"?

Bruce.

[73eldo]

What brand and type of chain set did you use?   I have heard lots of bad things about everything but the Cloyes brand stuff.   More than one story about the crank sprocket coming apart.  Hopefully its something that is not timing related, I believe on this vintage engine the valves could hit the pistons if it came out of time.  I will cross a finger for you and hope its just something easy like the fuel pump eccentric came loose.  

Since you mention having trouble with the timing cover I am guessing you did not drop the oil pan?  If you dont drop the pan the trick is to drive the big locating pins into the block then the rest of the way out after you remove the cover. You then drive them back in after you place the cover.   Dropping the pan is the way to go because its the proper way to make the seal between the timing cover and pan work but it also allows you to clean out all the pieces of cam sprocket and valve guide seals that are now living in the oil pickup.  

[Speach]

Yes I took the oil pan off, cleaned, stripped it and repainted it. It seemed the correct way to install the timing cover was to put it on before the oil pan.

I did install the oil slinger, which way is the correct way so I am sure? I am pretty sure that I put the wide end facing out toward the front of the motor.

I used a timing set from rock auto it was a mexican Cloyes. Not sure how these compare to the standard cloyes.

I cranked it a couple of times after the initial clunk, prob a mistake. It was had for me to believe anything could really be wrong. Each time it sounded horrible, so i didnt try any more. It will crank but something is loose or not right. It sounds real bad, like hurry up and cut the car off.

[Speach]

Ok so back into the 68 to figure out my clanking problem. I took the timing cover off and could not find anything wrong. Timing gears are tight. Before I took the timing cover off I rechecked to make sure my crank pulley mark had #1 cylinder at tdc. It was. The motor also turned over no problem manually. The only thing that seemed weird was that my timing gears and chain were dry as a bone. Is that right? Or did my oil pump go out, and what im hearing is non lubed timing set clanking around???

[blue68deville]

I see oil pooled up in the fuel pump eccentric, were the gears/chain totally dry, like no oil film at all?

Did you get a chance to isolate the noise before you took it apart?

[STDog]

All the oil to the chain, an such is through the hole from the lifter valley.
It's not pressurized, just the overflow out the hole drips on to the back of the cam gear.

[Speach]

No I couldn't isolate it. I was scared to run it again. Plus I was by myself. 

[73eldo]

I dont remember the chains seeming that oily on engines I have taken apart.  In your photo it looks like the lower edges of the block are wet so I think there at least was oil up there.  I suspect a lot of the oil on the chain gets flung off.  I know if your fuel pump is not sealed up well you get a lot of oil out.

When I had my oil pump quit the first sign was the lifters collapsed and thats what was making the noise and I suspect what let the engine stall.    My pump sized and twisted the end of the drive shaft.   

[Cadillac Kid-CLC #15364]

William (or Bill),
The only thin I can see from the picture is that the cam sprocket bolts are not the original ones.  Check to see that they do not extend back through the sprocket and (potentially) touch the block.
If you used the simple Cloyes timing set there is only one crankshaft key slot, and if the timing set is installed correctly, the tow "dots" line up with the cam dot at 6 o'clock and the crank at 12 o'clock.
You did not give us much of an explanation of the noise, and I know noises sound different for everyone.
Suggest you pull the plugs and do a compression test.
Greg

[STDog]

Greg, wouldn't long cam gear bolts be noisy from the get go?

He said it ran fine for a while then went clunk and remained noisy (see 1st post).


Also, with #1 at TDC on the compression stark, both timing marks are at 12:00.
When you install with the cam at 6:00, then you have to rotate the crank once to get #1 set for the distributor (It's actually called out in the shop manual).

[Speach]

I really wish I had more info to go on. The sound was a clank CLANK clank, Definitely metal to metal. It didn't seem to really have much of a rhythm. It was loud. These sounds told me to quickly cut the car off. I did try it again after just to be sure that there was a real problem. Then immediately did it again. I felt like something was not right like the cam gear fell off or the oil slinger ripped off. I open it up and things look fine. So I am learning that the gears should be relatively dry.Chain does have some oil residue. I am going to pull the oil pump rod and see if that is mangled at all. As far as the bolts on the gear. Yea they are new but seemed to have no issues. I probably ran it for a total of 30-45 min after finishing the work. What would it sound like if my oil pump did go out???  

[pdxmose]

Since you pulled the oil pan, are you going to pull again and look underneath?  Did you take the oil pick-up off during cleaning?  Could it have gotten loose or bent and is hitting the crank?

               ...mose

[EZ]

I'd pull the oil pan and look at the oil pump pick up like mose said.  I'd also look at the rods and crank.

CLANK CLANK CLANK sounds like heavy parts not like lifters bleeding down.  SOunds more like crankshaft related
if the description was accurate.