CS130 100 amp alternator upgrade

[blue68deville]

I did this on my 68 last summer and it greatly improved my idle voltage and overall charging system performance.
Of course I didn't take any pics, and the car isn't here now but I can describe the process pretty well.
I used a CS130 from a 1993 3/4 ton 454 4x4 Suburban that I was already taking TBI and harness from.

It has the mounting points at 6 and 12 o'clock and the charge post is also in a convenient spot. The other bonus is that it has a single wire for the alternator exciter circuit, that makes it easy to install in an external regulator car. The exciter circuit is the one that turns the alternator on, it typically has the charge indicator bulb in the circuit.
Here's what it looks like. This pic had the wrong mount clocking, but you get the idea.

http://store.alternatorparts.com/cs130i-a105-amp-iceberg-series-finned-housing-alternator.aspx

If you are grabbing one from the boneyard, get as much of the exciter wire harness as you can. That's the plug in connector on the top/side of the alt. It's the right kind if it is a long connector with only 1 wire coming out. It's actually a 4 pin connector but you only are using the "L" terminal for this particular cs130. Other applications use the large S terminal also, I like this one because you don't need to.
Here's a pic link

http://www.americanautowire.com/faq/wp-content/uploads/130-144-connector.jpg

To physically mount the cs130 is easy.
The mount points and dimensions are almost the same as the old 10si the Caddy came with. I had to shave my bottom mount spacer just a hair, but that's it.
As far as the pulley goes, you will need to swap your v-belt pulley to the new cs130. DO NOT swap the fans. The cs 130 internal and external fans are made to rotate ccw. If you put the 10si fan on, it WILL overheat. Ask me how I know.
Use an impact tool to swap the pulleys, anything alse is an ass-whuppin and may break something.

The wiring is easy too.
The charge back wire will be in the same spot. This is the large gauge red wire that goes on the threaded post on the back of the alternator. I recommend upgrading it to a 6ga or 4ga wire to handle the added current. Attach it to the new cs130.
The Dark Green wire that was on the 10si charge post won't be used.

The regulator wiring:
Disconnect the 2 wire connector from you old alt and set it aside, you won't be using it. The Dark Green wire to the charge post will probably be loomed up with this connector. Again, it's not needed anymore.
Remove the external regulator. When you do there will be 1 or more black ground wires that were attached to the body of the regulator. Find a new spot to ground those guys again. On my car they were for the lighting circuit and the r/f lights were all dim without this ground hooked up. DOH!
The harness connector for the external regulator has 4 wires. Mine were Dark Blue, White, Red, and Brown. Check your particular year wiring diagram to verify you are using the charge light circuit for the exciter.
You will only use the Brown wire, it is the one that goes to the charge light in the cluster.
A generic spade connector will slide right into the Brown wire terminal on the harness plug for the old regulator, that's what I used.
You then run a wire from this Brown wire terminal to the new cs130 "L" terminal plug. This is where it's handy to get a good length from a donor car so you don't have a bunch of splices.

Secure your new wiring, tape up the old regulator connector, and tighten your alternator belt.

Crank up the Caddy and enjoy!

As a note, the wire colors may vary with different years, but the basic idea should be the same.
Also, this was done on a car with an unmolested original wiring harness. If yours has been hacked or had changes made to the charging circuit this may not work.

Check to see that the unused wires have no voltage when you're done. If you did it right (and the various years wiring is the same as the 68) they should be dead. They aren't connected to the cars' electrical system any more, and you can remove them from the harness to tidy things up.

[blue68deville]

For anyone interested, here's the cs130 wiring diagram for the internal regulator. Figure 3 is for the example I used. Figure 3A requires the "I" terminal be used also. I like the first option.

http://www.alternatorparts.com/cs130_sbpage3.htm

[73eldo]

Its interesting how similar they have looked over the years.   I swapped mine out for a 12.  I was not trying to gain capacity I was just going for the better cooling.

So the new alternator is supposed to spin the other way?

You went from a 60amp?  To a 105amp without any upgrades to the cars wiring?    

I had a fire once because of a previous owners 'upgrade'.    Battery had died.  No problem get out the jumper cables and get er done.  It started right up and I went to work.   A little while later lots of smoke and then some sparks.   Luckily for me this was a diesel tractor on a gravel road so not a lot of stuff to burn.  After the smoke cleared and things cooled off it tuned out that main wire from the alternator had been working at melting itself into the rest of the harness for quite a while, possibly a little every time it was started and for sure when it was started with a dead battery.  The insulation was basically melted into the strands of the wire for the entire length.   The original was something in the 50amp range.  What was on there was in the 100.    With a dead battery that thing was likely putting out 100 amps.    

[blue68deville]

You're right, that is too much current for that wire.

I put in a heavier chargeback wire. I also used a junction block as I plan on adding EFI and running the headlights off relays.

The stock charge back wire is 10ga and pretty short, but you are running a lot of current thru it. I would definitely recommend upgrading it to a 6ga or 4ga.

Thanks, I forgot to add that last night, it's in there now.

[blue68deville]

If anyone with other year wiring diagrams can verify other year models are wired the same as the 68 that would be great.

And yes, the serpentine belt alternators spin counter clock wise. I haven't had this be a problem yet and I've ran the cs130 on other old clock wise applications.

[pdxmose]

Nice write up. 

I performed a similar conversion on my 429, but used a 3-wire CS130 from a different app.  See the following link.  I'll try to remember to add pictures of the distribution block and wiring as examples.

http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/forum/index.php/topic,6810.msg79300.html#msg79300

       ...mose

[blue68deville]

Thanks mose. Your motor pic is so blue. I gotta get mine freshened up...

Here's the type of junction block I used, easy to find at the junkyard. All the 90's Chevy full size TBI trucks had em.
Post #7, second and third pic.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=237605

This junction block gives you a ton of connection options. I mounted mine on the back of the core support right behind the battery tray. Ran the cs130 charge back wire to it, then a wire from the junction block to the battery. I'll run anything I add to the car off this block so I don't add any additional load to the factory harness.

As a bonus, you can grab the cs130 charge back wire from the donor truck. It will have a fusible link built in where it connects to the junction block.

[EZ]

The electrical part of the rebuild of a car is my weakness.  So I usually get help from friends.  Do you guys think it's not a good idea to upgrade to a higher amp alternator?  I was planning on going with at least the 105 amp, maybe more!  What problems do you forsee if I do?

[blue68deville]

I say do it! But of course I always say that.

Really, if you do it with the charge wire upgrade and a junction block I don't see a downside. You'll be able to add electrical stuff in the future and not worry about it taxing the stock wiring.
I would recommend the iceberg upgrade (from alternatorparts.com) if you're buying a new unit, they do run cooler.

[73eldo]

Ya the key to upgrade output wire from alternator to the battery and then to make sure all the original wiring is protected with fusible links or circuit breakers.  Anything you add to the system will then connect to the battery or a junction between the battery and alternator. 

The first mistake people make is like who ever did my tractor, they just changed the alternator.  It was likely fine for many years because there just was not any accessories on the tractor to overload the factory wiring but what caused the fire was a dead battery. 

Second problem is if you did upgrade the wire to the battery is you should not add anything significant to the original car's wiring.   An example would be say headlights.  Same concept with replacing / upgrading any stock electrical item with something that draws more than the stock did.   Running a new wire from the switch will not usually help because the wire that feeds the switch will be too small so you replace that too but then the wire (and fusible link) that feeds the fuse box may be overloaded.   The way to deal with this other than rewiring the whole car is to use relays.   Its not that hard to put relays together yourself but you can also by relay blocks from places like Painless.   What you do again using the example of headlights is add your new lights with new properly sized harnesses to the lights them selves then leading to a relay under the hood.  The power to the relay comes from your new wiring to the battery and is protected with some sort of fuse / breaker / fusible link wire.   To control the relay you use the old harness.  You just connect the old + terminal of the light harness to the relay.  When you turn on the OE switch its now just sending a tiny amount of power to the new relay.  The main power draw is then all through new properly sized wire.   This takes some of the load off the original system and should lower the stress on all the old parts.  The same concept would work for anything.  Ignition would be the same.  The old coil wire runs a relay.  This is the way things like a MSD box work except the relay is internal to the box.   

[blue68deville]

Even the original headlights are much brighter with the relay upgrade. I did that on my 68 C10 and it made a huge difference. The only gain I got from replacing the halogen sealed beams with H7 bulbs was the pattern/focus of the light.
I'll do that with the Caddy just to take some load off my Twilight Sentinel relay. I had to repair it once and I don't want to damage it again.

[STDog]

I'd hook up the S (sense) wire and run it to the junction block/distribution point.

That looping of the sense wire to the alternator output is one of the weak points in the OEM harness.


As for the headlights, relays are good, especially on the big cars like the Cadillacs. A lot of voltage drop going from the battery to the switch and back top the lamps. It made even worse by the age of the wires.


But, I'd find a good set of old stock, non-halogen beams. The brightness issues are related to the long and old wires.
They are rated for 13.7V and a drop of 1.5V will reduce the light output by 30%. That is true of the newer halogen capsules too. So, without the relay/wiring changes, you won't get any better.

The reason for the old, non-halogen beams is because they halogen sealed beams are mad on worn out tooling that doesn't produce as good a beam pattern, especially the low beam. The halogen low beam on them isn't any brighter either. They lowered the electrical power to keep the light output the same.

[EZ]

I bought some new headlights off Ebay for my Cadillac.  I can't remember exactly what kind they are but they were supposed to be something like 30-50% brighter than the stock bulbs were.  I plan to re-do all the wiring harnesses under the hood.  I know they age at a faster rate because of the heat.  Running relay's is probably a good idea for the headlights.  I don't see very well at night so I'll take all the help I can get.  For me brighter is better!

I thought about running two batteries as well since there are 2 battery boxes under the hood of the '66 Cadillac.  I have converted the car to air ride so I will have to power 2 Viair 480C air compressors as well as a new stereo, amplifiers and subwoofers.  That's a lot of extra electronics for a 45 year old car.  All the new stuff will of course have new wiring harnesses made to power them. SO I think a high output alternator will be mandatory as well.  I'm sure I'll be back asking questions when the time comes.