67 Deville left front brake issues

[sunstatecadi]

Hi all,

Just brought home my 67 sedan deville.  The car is 95% original.  The left front brake gives off a shudder when first applied that feels like something is grabbing then shifting over...  It seems to go away after a few pumps.  Driving it home last night and a guy told me there were sparks coming off the left front.  Seemed like there was some brake fade going on.  Couldn't see leaks.  Crawled under it right away and saw the steel tread was exposed on the tire but nothing hanging.  Couldn't really smell asbestos burning.  I do have a shudder around 55-60mph on what feels like the left front too...

I'm pretty much a newb @ older cars so any place to start diagnosing would be of great help!!!

Thanks!

[Carnut]

Sounds to me like it could be oil on the brake lining. There are spray cleaners, but I would probably repack the wheel bearings using new grease seals, and replace the brake lining and possibly the brake wheel cylinders.

[Gary]

Perhaps that left front caliper is sticking.
What Carnut advises would solve  that problem.

Gary

[Geoff]

You may have more than one thing going on there.  First thing to do to diagnose your problem is to pull that front wheel and drum (no calipers here if your car is original).  If you do not know your way around drum brake systems, take your car to someone that does.  Sounds to me like you could have a leaking wheel cylinder and brake fluid has soaked into the brake lining.  If one brake cylinder is leaking the rest won't be far behind.  First thing I do when buying an older car with an unknown history is to go through all of the brakes, checking linings, usually replacing or rebuilding the wheel cylinders, and for sure replacing all of the rubber brake hoses.  Blow out and thoroughly flush the entire brake system with fresh brake fluid.  
If you are seeing steel through your tire tread you of course need to replace that tire --- probably all of them if they are the same age.  Your "shudder" at 55-60 could be that tire coming apart, tire balance, or, if it occurs when braking, then your brake drum(s) probably need to be machined to true them up.  Many large parts stores can perform this service or if your car is at a brake shop they will no doubt have the capability to turn your drums.
If your car is capable of moving then stopping it properly is of primary importance.  Don't neglect those brakes or cut corners fixing them.
Geoff    

[73eldo]

With chunks hanging out of a tire I would expect a little vibration and would not want to drive it more than walking speed.  

I presume its got drums?  

I would be taking a close look at the front brake and wheel bearings.   Sparks are not normal or good.  You could be doing further damage to the car not to mention yourself if whats left of those tires come apart or something sizes or falls off the front end.

When buying an old car assuming you survived the trip home I get em up in the air for a careful inspection.  If you are not a DIY guy hopefully you know someone that is or know a good mechanic.  I always look at the brakes and wheel bearings along with other mechanical stuff.  I also look at all the hoses including the brake hoses.  Unless they really look new they get replaced.  They usually are not that expensive and that way you know where you stand.  Same goes with fuel and cooling system hoses.  Sounds like in your case you need a set of tires too.  After that its on to engine and transmission mechanical issues and then on to interior and exterior stuff.  

Thinking back to some of the stuff I actually drove home sometimes knowing there were issues and sometimes not......   Its amazing I am still here.     I now have access to a big trailer and a 1 ton truck to pull it with.  Much safer way to do it.  

[sunstatecadi]

Thanks guys for all the responses.

The car is all original and yes does have the drum brakes all around.  I've been around drum brakes as the "helper kid" plenty of times but have never done them solo.  Threw out my back yesterday so I haven't had a chance to take it apart yet.

The tires are going to be replaced with decent used ones right away.  I'm going used because after the brakes are "gone-through" I will be focusing on front end bushings i.e. upper & lower control arm bushings and such. I'm sure a proper alignment will be necessary after any replacements. My initial plan was to grab a shop manual and fill every grease fitting the car has.  I was hoping physically trying to move the front control arms and such would reveal any bushings that are shot.

Phase 2 will indeed be at least a trans pan drop, clean and filter replace.  I should be able to check the fill level on the diff easily enough but wasn't sure if it'd be necessary to dump the heavy oil.  I've even heard of people attaching magnets to the cover during that process.  Of course dumping the oil, new filter and a radiator flush/fill is in order.  Plug wires, cap and rotor are new and I'll be taking good stock of the plugs when I pull 'em for diagnosis on engine function.  Day one driving home she blew white smoke on decelartion and I thought valve guides were shot but starting day 2 that never happened again.  No blue smoke either.  Unknown miles.

Electrically the car is a bit of a mess.  Only highbeams work and I'm starting with the dimmer switch.  Tail lights go into hazard mode as opposed to turn signals.  Tracing that back circuit out to see if there's a short. 

Just trying to get it to drive and stop safely on a fix the cheapest part first budget. 

Thanks for helping me bring this Fine Cadillac back to life!!!

[Geoff]

Re: the headlights.  While the problem could be in the dimmer switch, do the easier and cheaper check first --- maybe the low beams on both lights are out.  If you have a test light, disconnect the plug at a light and see if you have low beam power there, you already know there is high beam power.  Or, temporarily plug in a known good headlight bulb.  On a car that sounds like it hasn't had much maintenance lately it could just be bad bulbs.  
Geoff    

[EZ]

Dude, fix those brakes and buy some tires, even if they are used ones.  Nothing will mess your day up
faster than wrecking your old car and getting hurt or killed in the process.  AFTER you get the brakes right
THEN you can test drive the car and see how it drives.     

The frone end bushings are fairly cheap and they probably ALL need to replaced.  It's an old car.  Tie rods and
ball joints are fairly cheap as well so replace them too.  Then you know the steering and front suspension and brakes
are all OK and the car will drive MUCH better when you're done. 

[sunstatecadi]

Thanks guys.  Yeah just waiting on next friday pay day to get things going.  I've got a day off later on today so I'll start the prep work (which involves moving crap in the garage too) and start crawling around and looking at the front end.  I've already priced out everything and as long as I don't need new drums I should be ok.  Turning them would be plenty good for now if specs will allow.

I thought the left rear was sinking down because of a bad tire.  Come to find out it's just the driveway sinking due to all that solid American metal!

WE do have sinkholes in Florida though I guarantee if the Earth swallows my Cadi I WILL get it back! 

[sunstatecadi]

The 67 is getting picked up on a tow truck tomorrow morning to get the front end and brakes sorted out.  I just don't have the time, tools or space to get it done.  Thankfully it's the roommate's friend with a shop and he's willing to take his time and not gouge me on the repairs.

Just having him throw it on the lift and go through all front end bushings and do an overhaul of the brakes and replacing bearings.  Also a tranny flush, filter and a diff check.  While it sat it developed a power steering leak from hell so the pump is getting replaced too...  Set of used tires to keep it rolling before a proper alignment as well.

Thanks for all the help.  Can't wait to drive it safely!

[Carnut]

NAPA has repair kits for GM PS pumps. Might last longer than putting on a used one.

[sunstatecadi]

Update...

Took the Cadi to a mechanic that my roommate recommended.  He went through the front end and brakes.  All the bushings, linkage were in good shape but lower ball joint was way loose.  He tightened that up, replaced brake hardware, bearings, pads, etc.  Drums were still in good shape although he did do some clean up there.  All grease fittings up front got lubrication as well.

$160 out the door including towing from my house.  Car runs true now and even stops very well.  What a feeling! 

Thanks for the good advice.

[Carnut]

I assume you have replaced the tires.

[sunstatecadi]

Yes sir, mostly.... I say that because the budget didn't allow for good tires and the ones on there wouldn't make it home from the mech shop.  On the way home I had to stop @ a used tire place.  I ended up with a pair of Michelins, 185/60/15s on the front for $70 installed and balanced.

I do realize they are way too small for regular operation.  They just didn't have anything else usable and I bit the bullet to make it home.  I'll be getting some new ones next week and keep these as spares as they already look like a spare donut installed.

The tire guy actually said that 15" tires are now very hard to find used.  He told me he could get tires for anything over 16" and has "like brand new" tires the most in sizes 18"-22"  .  Basically told me if i went with some new fancy 20" wheels I would do better with tires going into the future.  I'm not sure about having such small sidewalls on a 5000lb car.

[The Tassie Devil (Bruce Reynolds)]

Boy, 185's on a car that needs 235's, would really look out of place.

Reminds me of the Low-riders I saw in Las Vegas in '02, with their skinny wheels.

Bruce.